All too unwell
Nov. 14th, 2021 09:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
nrgburstI love that we got so many Vault tracks on Red (Taylor's Version)! I am mostly listening to them, actually - I feel like her vocal control and maturity shows a little too much in the re-recorded tracks? This album is all about the headrush, spinning-out feeling of falling wildly in love and then getting your heart absolutely crushed. The desperate edges in her younger self singing these feel more authentic to me still, but maybe it's just because I'm so used to hearing them? So my fave tracks to play on repeat right now are New to Me ones: The Moment I Knew, Come Back...Be Here, Nothing New, Better Man, Message in a Bottle and All Too Well (10 minute version).
Actually the last track (and the accompanying short film) is mostly what I want to talk about, because it's brought up a lot of talk about age gaps in relationships in a couple of different places for me, and I had some very different conversations about what the film depicted:
Taylor cast these two very deliberately - the ten year age gap is the same as the one between her and Jake Gyllenhaal, and this song is famously autobiographical about their relationship when she was 20. Back when ATW was the 5 minute version, it seemed like a song about great love found and lost, but it's morphed into something a lot darker and expository in its new iteration. So he's been trending on Twitter since the album dropped.
"I'll get older but your lovers stay my age." OUCH. Taylor dragging him full out, spelling out a few more memorable incidents (like him standing her up on her 21st birthday), this noticeable relationship pattern of his and his emotional withholding power games.
In fact, the film's main point is the starkly unbalanced power dynamic in the relationship. Older Guy (Dylan O'Brien dressed and styled like 2011 Jake G) is always the one in the driver's seat, not including or acknowledging his much younger girlfriend (Sadie Sink) when with his friends, and then gaslighting her when she explains how horrible that made her feel before finally being the one to break things off. And the thing TS seems to be pointing out is: this kind of power imbalance isn't actually a rare occurrence with age gap relationships, and it's one some men seek out deliberately.
I think age gaps aren't necessarily problematic; it's the power/experience/financial gap that is. I think this post sums it up pretty well:
On a personal note, my mother was in Uni when she met my (24 years senior) father, who had gone back to Hong Kong after his divorce expressly for the purpose of finding himself a young, new wife. She never finished her degree: he took her back to Canada, where he isolated and abused her (and us kids) for almost 15 years. And my SIL is mid-divorce right now from her 10 years older husband, who she met while he was coaching her club at Uni. You know the thing I remember most about her talking about him? "Kenka shinai," she said, absolutely beaming. (We) don't fight. It took her literally years to realize it was because she was just doing everything he told her to. And yes, he followed the pattern too: they're getting divorced because he was cheating on her with his new girlfriend, a university student.
I'm glad Taylor is speaking up about this? Like it's a dynamic that our culture and media reinforces as Absolutely Fine and even Ideal - see how hard it is for a 40-something year old actress to be cast as a love interest for a 50 year old actor. 🙄 And I am absolutely not saying all men are serial predators, or that all age gap relationships with this specific age gap are doomed. But I'm glad she's putting the full truth out there now that she can look back at the relationship from a distance and go, "yeah, that was fucked up." Just look at her new album cover. It's her in the driver's seat now.
Actually the last track (and the accompanying short film) is mostly what I want to talk about, because it's brought up a lot of talk about age gaps in relationships in a couple of different places for me, and I had some very different conversations about what the film depicted:
Taylor cast these two very deliberately - the ten year age gap is the same as the one between her and Jake Gyllenhaal, and this song is famously autobiographical about their relationship when she was 20. Back when ATW was the 5 minute version, it seemed like a song about great love found and lost, but it's morphed into something a lot darker and expository in its new iteration. So he's been trending on Twitter since the album dropped.
Jake Gyllenhaal calling Tom Holland ‘kid’ for the entirely of the far from home press tour
— jess (@ripcowstoenails) November 13, 2021
Tom Holland being the same age as Jake’s girlfriend… pic.twitter.com/SCvaihqKcF
Sorry for this one #RedTaylorsVersion pic.twitter.com/hLJpFD5T4S
— Meredith Cash (@mercash22) November 13, 2021
"I'll get older but your lovers stay my age." OUCH. Taylor dragging him full out, spelling out a few more memorable incidents (like him standing her up on her 21st birthday), this noticeable relationship pattern of his and his emotional withholding power games.
In fact, the film's main point is the starkly unbalanced power dynamic in the relationship. Older Guy (Dylan O'Brien dressed and styled like 2011 Jake G) is always the one in the driver's seat, not including or acknowledging his much younger girlfriend (Sadie Sink) when with his friends, and then gaslighting her when she explains how horrible that made her feel before finally being the one to break things off. And the thing TS seems to be pointing out is: this kind of power imbalance isn't actually a rare occurrence with age gap relationships, and it's one some men seek out deliberately.
I think age gaps aren't necessarily problematic; it's the power/experience/financial gap that is. I think this post sums it up pretty well:
The thing about All Too Well is not the age-gap itself, but the age gap at that particular stage in life. Because a 10 year age gap between a 20 year old and a 30 year old is not the same way as a 10 year age gap but between, say, a 30 year old and a 40 year old. With 30-40, we’re talking about two people who can consider themselves in similar stages of life, they are both full adults. But someone who is just turning 20 and someone who just turned 30 are two people who are in completely different stages of life.
When you’re 20, you’re just entering that awkward phase between being a late teen and a young adult, and trying to figure out how the fuck adulting works. When you’re 30 (I imagine, since I’m not 30 yet), you’ve already more or less have the hang of it. You can’t expect a 20 year old to experience life the same way as a 30 year old, no more than you could expect it the other way around. Expectations are different, needs are different, thought process is different, literally everything. I’m sure there must be some couples that make it work, and good for them! But they’re exceptions, not the rule. In most cases, the relationship is clearly too unbalanced to be called healthy.
I'm glad Taylor is speaking up about this? Like it's a dynamic that our culture and media reinforces as Absolutely Fine and even Ideal - see how hard it is for a 40-something year old actress to be cast as a love interest for a 50 year old actor. 🙄 And I am absolutely not saying all men are serial predators, or that all age gap relationships with this specific age gap are doomed. But I'm glad she's putting the full truth out there now that she can look back at the relationship from a distance and go, "yeah, that was fucked up." Just look at her new album cover. It's her in the driver's seat now.
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Date: 2021-11-14 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-15 01:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-14 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-15 01:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-14 07:49 pm (UTC)I definitely judge men who make a habit of going for young women because what they're looking for is power imbalances. These men always suck as partners, because the root of all of this is a deep insecurity that they don't deal with, they just try to use their partner as a panacea, then get angry when it doesn't work.
I don't think the life stage bit is the most important part, though. People always end up in wildly different places mentally, financially and experience-wise. What matters is how you adjust to your differing circumstances - and if one of you expects to take the lead on everything because they're older/wiser/richer/male, that's fucked up, and sometimes it takes the other person a while to figure this out - although looking at my mum's friends, some never do.
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Date: 2021-11-15 01:57 am (UTC)I don't think the life stage bit is the most important part, though. People always end up in wildly different places mentally, financially and experience-wise. What matters is how you adjust to your differing circumstances This is true too! I still think the older you are, the more able you are to cope with differing circumstances, though? Like it's just not your first time at the rodeo. I'd almost compare it to work experience mattering more than a degree in certain fields - you might know all the theory of how Stuff Is Supposed To Work but the actual Doing (and the learning from mistakes) is what actually enables you handle new problems/people more capably. I get your point for sure though!
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Date: 2021-11-15 03:43 pm (UTC)I still think the older you are, the more able you are to cope with differing circumstances, though?
Yeah, there's definitely a correlation. I'm mostly pointing out that it's not as rigid as people often like to make it. That's why some age-gap relationships work out well, while most are sketchy at best. I've just seen too many people who rigidly focus on age and "life experience", assuming those go a certain way for people, when most people I know, myself included, are all over the place, life experience-wise.
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Date: 2021-11-14 08:38 pm (UTC)But, yes, guys who need the power imbalance in order to have a relationship? ugh.
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Date: 2021-11-15 02:38 am (UTC)We all know those guys, don't we? And the young women so flattered to be "chosen" because they're "not like the other girls".
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Date: 2021-11-15 02:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-15 12:36 am (UTC)As to the rest of it: the age gap is a serious and all too common thing, and I'm glad she's decided to call attention to it. You really don't realize how vulnerable you are at that age until you're past it and can see all the mistakes you made more clearly. Which is not to say that early 20-somethings and teenagers are dumb! But they are just on that edge where people can take advantage of them, and that's what ends up happening in relationships like this.
Plus, women just don't seem to be allowed to get older with dignity. Which isn't quite the same thing, but I think it's related. It's portrayed as "normal" for 40 or 50 year old men to have love interests decades younger than them, as opposed to women their own age.
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Date: 2021-11-15 03:01 am (UTC)I love it when she keeps us fed! 🥰
You really don't realize how vulnerable you are at that age until you're past it and can see all the mistakes you made more clearly. Which is not to say that early 20-somethings and teenagers are dumb! But they are just on that edge where people can take advantage of them, and that's what ends up happening in relationships like this. This is it exactly. I know my mom still gets really sad about how he basically stole her youth; how she was so confident defying her parents back then and regrets so much now. Not that anybody can ever say anything in that situation, either? Nothing that will affect change, anyway, unless it's to convince the guy in control to give up his control, I think.
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Date: 2021-11-15 03:20 pm (UTC)Good LORD! Okay, that's amazing. I do wonder if she ever sleeps.
That's upsetting. I'm sorry your mom went through that. And yeah, part of me wonders if it's a rebellious thing, like, Romeo + Juliet or something. (Which I still say is both romantic *and* tragic, and it bothers me that modern thinkpieces seem to want people to choose.) BUT yeah, if people older than you are aware of that, they can and will manipulate you. It's awful how common that is.
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Date: 2021-11-15 03:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-15 11:33 pm (UTC)The Jake G memes have been hilarious, gotta say. And I am just like. He deserves every ounce of it? You know the ten minute version was her original lyrics that she wrote at 21? So the song was also about being gaslit (“you double cross my mind”) and actually remembering it “all too well” the whole time. She got dragged for writing songs about her painful relationship experiences for yeeeears. So only now, 10 years later, is she whole and powerful enough to speak her truth. That resonates with me a lot.
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Date: 2021-11-16 06:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-11-16 09:52 pm (UTC)ETA: I forgot he changed his profile on Twitter too! Here’s the thread with that addition!
https://janetsnakehole02.tumblr.com/post/667714223917432832/how-did-yall-miss-the-best-one